According to the German Ambassador to Georgia, Hubert Knirsch, the presence of the former president in prison is a severe test for all countries, for all the judiciary. Do the Georgian state and the country's judiciary pass this test? What shortcomings does the diplomat see in the judiciary in general and does he consider it right to move the political process back to the streets after the election is over. The German Ambassador answered these and other relevant questions in an interview with Interpressnews.

- About a week ago, when the focus of the country's political spectrum and public attention was on the elections and the post-election process, several judges of the Supreme Court were appointed, and before that there were cases of expedited appointments to the High Council of Justice. I would like to ask you, to what extent does this correspond to the reforms that are planned in the direction of the judiciary?

It was surprising to see how quickly and in what an informal way new members of the High council for the Judiciary were elected. Some of my colleagues have already criticized that in public. An even bigger surprise, to my mind, was the very categoric reaction of the Council to that – instead of taking up the factual remarks, even if they were somewhat harshly formulated, the Council denied diplomats the right to say anything critical at all. We have seen that not all the judges were in agreement with this reaction.

- Does this indicate the existence of the so-called clan and attempts to strengthen it? Does it raise the question of trust with the court?

It is a strong accusation to say that some persons in the judicial system put their own interests or some group interest above the law. Before saying such a thing, you should have clear evidence, which is not the case for me. Given that such skepticism is wide spread in society, however, the Council should strictly make sure that its new members are selected in a careful and transparent procedure. And it should understand criticism as an opportunity to give explanations and to strengthen the trust it enjoys. With a high position, with influence and power, comes an equal measure of responsibility.

- What specific problems do you see in the judiciary and do you think that the planned reforms in this direction adequately respond to the existing challenges?

Many reforms have taken place in the Georgian judiciary and many things have improved over these last few years. The example that we just discussed, however, shows that there is still room for improvement, especially in the area of the self-governance of the judiciary. Also, perhaps not every judge has yet developed that self-confident and independent inner attitude that they all need in order to serve the law and the law alone. We stand ready to support further reforms if we are asked to do so.

- The trials of the third President of Georgia, Mikheil Saakashvili, were held in connection with November 7 and the so-called "jackets' case", however, the accused himself was not allowed to attend any of the trials either physically or online. What standard of the judiciary does this indicate? Does this allow us to say that the judiciary in Georgia is politicized?

Having a former president in prison is a severe test for any country, any judiciary system. It is good to see that on Mr. Saakashvili´s own initiative, the European Court for Human Rights will reexamine the verdicts against him. It is also good to see that the Strasbourg court also looks at the modalities of imprisonment and that it has asked Mr. Saakashvili to end his hunger strike, in the interest of an orderly procedure. Now it is of utmost importance that during imprisonment all the rights of the convict are respected and likewise the rights of the defendant during the further court proceedings. The administration of justice must not be influenced by the political circumstances.

- Not only the Georgian society, but the whole world saw the footage of Mikheil Saakashvili being transferred to the clinic located in Gldani penitentiary institution. In your opinion, to what extent does such treatment of the third president of the country comply with the norms of international law, including the norms that tell us that human dignity must be protected?

One of the rights that even a prisoner has is the right to privacy. Authorities should not succumb to the temptation to cut some corners here – even in a situation where all details of the imprisonment are being hotly debated in public, in a colorful mix of and true and untrue statements.

- We can not ignore other relevant political issues. Elections in Georgia are over and the country is back in a continuous cycle of alternating elections and street protests. How do you assess moving back the political processes to the streets?

Since 2016, Georgia has seen five election years. Now there will be three years without elections. This does not mean, however, that democratic politics can no longer take place. Each party has to decide on how to present itself during this period. I often hear that citizens yearn for politicians who care for the very real problems of the people.

- The welfare of the society and putting society's interests above their own party or political interests is considered a priority declared by the EU and EU member states. In the light of the current political crisis, or tensions, how much do you think the needs of the population are taken into account socially and economically, and how much do you see the political spectrum putting the needs of society above its own political goals?

Democracy is a very realistic concept: parties are expected to follow their own interest, the interest to get elected - as long as they pursue this aim with the right means. A party must show and make credible that it will pass the best laws, run the country on the best possible way. In Georgia, this competition has not yet begun. I find it encouraging, at least, that the prime minister presses for reducing the prices of medical drugs. This is such a very real problem which gives many people real headaches. I am sure that the opposition will have its own ideas how to solve this.

- There is an impression that in political agenda, such a vital issue as pandemic management has become secondary, and when I say vital, I mean that the death rate in the country has exceeded 70. How effectively is the pandemic being handled, given that the rallies of thousands are held by the opposition or the ruling party in the streets, and this has become a daily occurrence, also, how fair do you think it is to respond to the aggravated situation with lockdown?

It is shocking to think that - allow me a drastic metaphor – each day, two big busses full of Georgians, men and women, roll off for the afterworld. Too many people have decided against vaccination, for a variety of reasons. We were in the process of preparing a delivery of vaccines – it turned out that it was not in demand any more. In a number of other countries, lockdowns of one or the other kind have been reimposed. One thing is clear: Covid must not become a permanent part of our lives – not in Georgia, not anywhere.

Salome Abulashvili

Interpressnews